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Why no electric oil pumps?

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Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:31 am PostPost subject: Why no electric oil pumps?
nefarious
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Why don't small/low power engines run electric oil pumps?
The push to reduce parasitic losses on engines has moved more and more ancillaries to electric power (fuel pumps, water pumps etc), but oil pumps have remained resolutely crank-driven.
I know lots of dry sump systems and big power turbo builds use electric auxiliary and scavenge pumps, but a can't find any examples of systems using an electric pump for the main pressure feed.

What am I missing?
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Last edited by nefarious on Fri Sep 25, 2015 6:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:13 pm PostPost subject: Re: Why no electric oil pumps?
scottish scrutineer
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nefarious wrote:
What am I missing?

The fact that the Formula Ford Regulations don't allow you to fit them. Very Happy

Remember the adage as far as any MSA Regulations go, "if you doesn't say you can, you can't"
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Tue Sep 22, 2015 12:34 pm PostPost subject:
nefarious
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It was more a general question, but according to my copy of the FF regs (dated 2013):

5.13 LUBRICATION SYSTEMS
The lubrication system, external to the engine, is
free. Existing standard production oilways,
linings or oil grooves may be enlarged or
reduced, but no additional ones are permitted.
Standard friction surfaces must remain
unchanged. Dry sump is permitted, oil coolers
are free.

Is there a newer version, or supplementary notes which prohibit?
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Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:37 pm PostPost subject: Re: Why no electric oil pumps?
David Long
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nefarious wrote:
Why don't small/low power engines run electric oil pumps?

What am I missing?


Two issues I see:

1) Oil pumps can absorb several HP and beefing up the electrical system to cope with that demand may add more weight and require more power than a conventional pump.

2) Reliability . An electrical failure is more likely than a conventional oil pump failure, and as consequences are catastrophic, the risk assessment would be much higher.
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Wed Sep 23, 2015 12:41 pm PostPost subject:
scottish scrutineer
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nefarious wrote:
It was more a general question, but according to my copy of the FF regs (dated 2013):

5.13 LUBRICATION SYSTEMS
The lubrication system, external to the engine, is
free. Existing standard production oilways,
linings or oil grooves may be enlarged or
reduced, but no additional ones are permitted.
Standard friction surfaces must remain
unchanged. Dry sump is permitted, oil coolers
are free.

Is there a newer version, or supplementary notes which prohibit?


Hmm, I suppose it may be allowed as the pump will be external. However, does that mean that the internal pump etc must be there also?
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Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:40 pm PostPost subject:
nefarious
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scottish scrutineer wrote:
Hmm, I suppose it may be allowed as the pump will be external. However, does that mean that the internal pump etc must be there also?


Not sure I entirely follow you? My oil pump has shaft for it which extends into the block to pick up drive, but as the main body is bolted to the outside, I'm assuming it is classed as "external to the engine", in the same way as the water pump and fuel pump are (specific exclusions for those in the regs).

Is this a question of semantics on what is internal/external, or am I being stupid as to how the oil pump works?
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Wed Sep 23, 2015 2:22 pm PostPost subject:
alistairolsen
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The only advantage I can see is in very high revving applications where you want to break the link between engine and pump speed, but other than that there are easier ways to waste half a winter and seize an engine.
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Thu Sep 24, 2015 3:30 pm PostPost subject:
scottish scrutineer
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nefarious wrote:


Is this a question of semantics on what is internal/external, or am I being stupid as to how the oil pump works?



No, I'm forgetting that the oil pump on a FF1600 is external. I don't think I've looked at a FF Kent engine "on the deck" for a few years, much less examined the oil system Smile
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