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Knockhill passing on the left- seems daft & dangerous to

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Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:21 am PostPost subject:
Hollowpockets
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Yeah that's right chubbysdad, spa/ring/Monza/zandvoort were all the same when I've been, pass on the left with consent.
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:38 am PostPost subject:
Gaz-M
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Ok, so sounds like its more of a positive way of showing consent from the car in front..? Rather than passing without knowing if the car in front has even acknowledged the car behind.

Probably that and the fact youd have people sticking it up the inside going into corners claiming its "passing on the right". Laughing
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 11:39 am PostPost subject:
Haggis
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Fee wrote:
Overtaking on trackdays is always, and only, with the consent of the car in front.

A car therefore moving off the racing line gives a clear indication that they intend to let the faster car behind pass.


They key word here is not left/right/safe/dangerous/straight/corner/faster/slower or anything else - it is CONSENT.

It was said on page 1 - this is as simple as the explanation needs to be. Overtaking on track days is by consent only - this mandates clearly that both parties are involved in the process and therefore both parties are aware of their part in the process. Notionally, one moves off line and slows if needs be, whilst the other gets passed cleanly and courteously. If you are thus engaged, you have to know where the other car is, and you should know what they are doing.

The overtaking rule as such was instigated as a result of one too many car-to-car incidents on track days (which are, by there very nature, uncompetitive) and this revised position makes that impossible - you have to co-operate with each other to pass, you can't hit each other whilst doing it.

Any other situation where there is either free rein or no consent is required is, be default, uncontrolled (I hesitate to use the word dangerous), and side doesn't come into it.

Logic will dictate that overtaking will be on the left for a clockwise circuit and right for an anti-clockwise one.

Hope that this helps.

H.
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:06 am PostPost subject:
Herman
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Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I've found this quite an interesting read. Coming from bike trackdays at Knockhill, the only rule is to not sit someone up mid-corner, other than that you pass whereever you feel like on whatever side you can. At times you can have 3-4 of you coming into the hairpin at once, passing people on the brakes, etc.

Always wondered why car trackdays never allowed it, but to be honest I think the post above sums it up quite nicely. Having 3-4 cars all coming into the hairpin at once, passing each other on the brakes is far more likely to end in a collision than 3-4 bikes who don't need as much space....hell, 3-4 bikes packed together probably take up about the same footprint on the track as a GT-R.

Interesting topic though, but just to throw it out there, does anyone feel some of these passing rules take away from the fun of the day if you have to keep waiting for the next straight and the driver infront to move over before you get passed them?

Purely asking this out of curiousity, obviously I'd much rather follow these rules and avoid a collision than have them not be there and end up in a pile-up at duffis.
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:08 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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so herman i will use a specific example and yes it can be frustrating. I am in a slower car in terms of straight line and at the recent trackday I was stuck/following a car like mine then a golf. The interesting thing is one of the guys said 'great race' after we pulled off and from his point of view yes it was.

From my point of view I was stuck behind two cars with similiar straight line speed but massively slower in the corners so I was constantly had to brake earlier/go slower round bends. if had been me i would have been in front for say a lap then let the person past and see if i could keep up - i love doing this with minis. They were pulling over but not lifting off on power - so obviously if identical power you aint passing.

I really need to learn to work in a cool down lap and let them get at least almost a lap ahead...

But at end of day its a trackday and in theory not a race Smile I did manage in looking at vbox to stay out on track for 28 laps though and car didnt break!
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:48 pm PostPost subject:
chorlton
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Herman, I hear you.
I did bikes for years 1st & didn't even think about passing, it just got done.
As you say cars are bigger but I think (IMHO only) guys on bikes already know they are very vulnerable & a mild off will cost thousands & pain. Many drivers, rightly, know they can cock up & just get a bit of mud on their wheels or pride dented.
Basically its safer & easier to be a twat in a car & get away with it than on a bike so KH need to factor in the mong element for everyones sake.
Very Happy
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 1:18 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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chorlton wrote:
Herman, I hear you.
I did bikes for years 1st & didn't even think about passing, it just got done.
As you say cars are bigger but I think (IMHO only) guys on bikes already know they are very vulnerable & a mild off will cost thousands & pain. Many drivers, rightly, know they can cock up & just get a bit of mud on their wheels or pride dented.
Basically its safer & easier to be a twat in a car & get away with it than on a bike so KH need to factor in the mong element for everyones sake.
Very Happy


perfectly said and to be honest for those that want to try the more free for all then test days is where it is at. I wouldnt like to think novices are having to cope with passing on all sides at any point - its hard enough getting confidence up Smile
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:34 pm PostPost subject:
alistairolsen
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Herman wrote:


Interesting topic though, but just to throw it out there, does anyone feel some of these passing rules take away from the fun of the day if you have to keep waiting for the next straight and the driver infront to move over before you get passed them?


The next straight, no, never. 10 laps in the situation andybell describes, yes. And it happens all too often on trackdays. Combination of ego and lack of observation.
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Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:56 pm PostPost subject:
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they didnt even notice my shaking of fists, head out the top of my rollcage hehe ooh the red mist. I need to have a look at the footage again as at times i think its not as bad as it seems. What appeared like 10 minutes may have not been quite like that
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Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:05 am PostPost subject:
Tedswagon
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I think Mr Forrest should read this, he was happy to pass on the right at the last night.
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Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:45 am PostPost subject:
Herman
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Interesting to see how well this works at myt first car trackday and how often you get people that don't see you/won't move.
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:22 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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just checked vbox and I was losing about 4 seconds a lap (from my usually consistent time) for time I was behind either of them. and combined between two cars was for 17 minutes worth I was losing that time Smile
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 3:32 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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why didnt you have a cool lap for 50secs to create a buffer.

If you cant get passed them with power, and they are being mongs... do the intelligent thing and get away from them by going the other way Smile
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:33 pm PostPost subject:
Fee
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AK wrote:
why didnt you have a cool lap for 50secs to create a buffer.

If you cant get passed them with power, and they are being mongs... do the intelligent thing and get away from them by going the other way Smile


I think we are all (mostly you Adam, I always manage to keep a sensible head!) guilty of getting the red mist and just sticking behind these people and getting more and more frustrated

It is extremely frustrating being stuck in this position.... You just need to remember that you don't NEED to get passed them. Have a cool lap / take a run through the pits and you'll be clear of them
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Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:46 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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why didn't I use common sense - how very dare you!!

Yeh I know plain stupidity on my part as I have this thing in my head that assumes people will always do the right thing and just didn't notice me. I usually take the assumption that people enjoy getting followed for a lap or two then want to play swapsie and try and keep up.

it was kinda fun following people to see if any scope for pushing on a bit but it does wear thin lap after lap. I swear I posted this point before...
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Last edited by andybell on Mon Nov 10, 2014 6:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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