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Knockhill passing on the left- seems daft & dangerous to

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Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:50 am PostPost subject: Knockhill passing on the left- seems daft & dangerous to
Gaz-M
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Right i know it must be a rule for a reason, but whats the reason?

I can see many more reasons for it to be passing on the right:

1) Faster driver approaching has much more visibility for making a safe maneuver over the track and can judge much better.

2) Stops a slower car/ driver having to concentrate on the mirrors rather than track.

3) Stops a slower car feeling the need to back off to allow past.

4) Stops dangerous situations on straights where slower car hasnt moved over or moved over enough.

5) From behind, passing on left up straights feels like your putting a lot of faith in the person staying over to the right, hoping theyve seen you rather than taking that line over start/finish etc.

6) Its what we are used to on our day to day driving wich in turn;

7) Makes it more natural.

8 ) Stops dangerous confusion.

9) All above making it SAFER.


The only reason i can think its been made to passing on the left is so that faster cars dont end up on the inside going into corners?

Who makes this (pretty stupid seeming) rule, Knockhill?

Id 100% say its more dangerous and not natural!

Can you tell im thinking about all these GTRs in my Clio mirrors on the straights (just the straights i hope Razz ) on Saturday....
Laughing
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:07 am PostPost subject:
jockthedog
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The outside of the track is the racing line, so faster cars pass there.

Slower cars only get passed on straights, not on corners.
Slower cars MUST back off.
Slower cars MUST pull over to the right.

Rule#1 - drive your own corners and let the approaching cars follow you. Only pull to the right AFTER the corner.

It's always seemed pretty natural to me Smile

Don't worry about those GTRs. They will likely be slower than you thru the first half of the track anyway.
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:12 am PostPost subject:
Fee
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It's not just a Knockhill rule....at all race circuits, the slower cars have to pull off the racing line to let the faster cars pass

Everyone should be paying attention to their mirrors whilst on track so I don't see it being much of an issue - you should be aware of what's going on around you
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:26 am PostPost subject:
Gaz-M
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Its the racing line so surely the quicker car should be the one to go off it to pass, as in normal road driving and racing..

You always know whats going on around you, but what im asking is whats the reason for the rule because as far as i can see it makes it more dangerous..

Im awaiting a good reason then ill accept it without moaning Laughing

Im not worried about GTRs, i was more thinking with the amount of them booked in it could become annoying due to the massive power difference on straights. Where as if they passed on the right, theyd move across the track with full view and make it a lot safer. No?
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:28 am PostPost subject:
M!chael
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Maybe a silly question, but is it still passing on the left on a reverse direction event?
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:33 am PostPost subject:
chorlton
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As above have said really.

Gaz your post reads like its all about go fast, get out of may way & faster means you have a right to have others move for you regardless what there doing & where they are on track.

Have you thought the other driver may not feel there is enough space, enough time, its a safe place to pass or there ability allows reaction?

I was on a track day with a group of persons in clios behind flashing lights & trying to get in my boot whilst in the duffus/leslies section once.
Where the heck was I to teleport to v wait until the next straight?

Its not a race
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:36 am PostPost subject:
chorlton
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M!chael wrote:
Maybe a silly question, but is it still passing on the left on a reverse direction event?


Eh no but 2 points for having the guts to ask Thumbs Up
It's the Outside on the 3 straights after car being passed moves to the inside & lifts off if required.

Weve all been there, my OFFS moment is when someone moves over, lifts off then floors it when you 1/2 past Laughing
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:50 am PostPost subject:
andybell
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to be honest with the mix of skills and just starting last year I found passing on left works well. Only problem comes when i am in my 140bhp caterham and there is a 600bhp monster behind me looming in my mirrors. But I just pull over and he/she zooms past in 1 pico second.

I guess its as frustrating waiting to go past a quicker car as it is for a slower car to pull over all the time
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:02 pm PostPost subject:
Gaz-M
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Ofcourse its about going fast. Its a race track, why would i be there otherwise.. Confused

Your making an argument that completely agrees with mine, i dont think anyone in a fast car should expect everyone to jump out their way- they should pass on the right instead. If i thought everyone should get out the way for fast drivers (like you seem to think i am?) then i would be all for the pulling over to the right, but im the exact opposite if you read my first post.

As Andybell said, its just as frustrating for the person in the fast car as it is for the one in the slow car.

What im saying is- i think passing on the right makes much more sense. Its natural and its safer.
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:07 pm PostPost subject:
Fee
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Overtaking on trackdays is always, and only, with the consent of the car in front.

A car therefore moving off the racing line gives a clear indication that they intend to let the faster car behind pass.

If cars were to pass on the right, there would be no indication and, if there was a scenario where the car in front had not seen the car behind and makes a decision of its own to move over into the middle of the track, then that may cause a collision
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:11 pm PostPost subject:
chorlton
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Maybe youd be there to learn & have fun, I know I am.

Speed is great & we all want to get the best out ourselves & car however there is 2-4hrs to do so & safety is more important than speed

It safer for the slowing car to go off line than the faster car to.
If the inside gap closes the faster offline car cant slow quicker then the slower online one due to Mr Physics.
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:15 pm PostPost subject: Re: Knockhill passing on the left- seems daft & dangerou
Fee
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Gaz-M wrote:

1) Faster driver approaching has much more visibility for making a safe maneuver over the track and can judge much better.

Agreed that the faster car has more visibility, but he cannot mind read what line the car in front is going to take. A clear 'move out the way' move is much clearer for both drivers

Gaz-M wrote:

2) Stops a slower car/ driver having to concentrate on the mirrors rather than track.


Everyone should be paying attention to mirrors. As overtaking is only on the straights, its not that difficult. Before you go into a corner have a quick glance in the mirrors to see what's coming up behind and be prepared coming out of the corner

Gaz-M wrote:

3) Stops a slower car feeling the need to back off to allow past.


Slower cars do not need to back off, just move over.

The only time we would recommend backing off, is for 'straight-line heros' who are fast up the straights but slow on the corners and tend to have a slower lap time overall

Gaz-M wrote:

4) Stops dangerous situations on straights where slower car hasnt moved over or moved over enough.


No dangerous situation should be caused by this on a trackday. If the car hasn't moved over, the car behind does not pass. Simple

Gaz-M wrote:


5) From behind, passing on left up straights feels like your putting a lot of faith in the person staying over to the right, hoping theyve seen you rather than taking that line over start/finish etc.



Someone making a move over to the right is a lot clearer than someone making no move whatsover if they were to stay on the racing line.
Generally we would suggest using an indicator as well, so it is clearer to the car behind of your intentions
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:58 pm PostPost subject:
M!chael
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chorlton wrote:
M!chael wrote:
Maybe a silly question, but is it still passing on the left on a reverse direction event?


Eh no but 2 points for having the guts to ask Thumbs Up
It's the Outside on the 3 straights after car being passed moves to the inside & lifts off if required.

Weve all been there, my OFFS moment is when someone moves over, lifts off then floors it when you 1/2 past Laughing


Haha Laughing

The way people were speaking sounded like it was passing in the left regardless! Cheers for clearing it up.
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:00 pm PostPost subject:
Hollowpockets
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Theres clearly been many instances of accidents before all circuits in the UK run the same policy of only passing when the slower car moves off the racing line, (normally on the left)

The chances of the faster car powering past on the dirty part of the circuit having an accident are much higher than the slower car pulling over in a controlled manner, theres less left to chance and its a predictable and sensible way to manage it.

So long as everyone uses mirrors regularly enough its fine
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:52 pm PostPost subject:
Gaz-M
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Faster cars on the dirty side of the track isnt dangerous at all (the slower car will be on it instead anyway), nor would i call it dirty- maybe in F1 with their marbles but its regularly having cars run up it so its not dirty. Shocked

Im still of the opinion its more dangerous and ive seen some Youtube videos which suggest it too.

Seems enough of you think its best as is, so ill man up and deal with it Razz

I thought more people would see it as i do to be honest!
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