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Race craft - or lack of

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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:09 am PostPost subject: Race craft - or lack of
andybell
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Soo I have been watching my race footage and thinking about what the races were like and wanted to throw a few questions out there to help either improve my own driving or assist with others. As you know even at the top of my game my cars roughly a minute a lap in the dry if I was to be flat out. This means i can be anywhere from 8-4 seconds a lap slower than most going round.

First thing is obviously the start in race 2 and I caught Fiona unaware. So to give some background: slightly damp track, Fiona at back in 4wd and stupidly more power. In my mind i am aware that typically within 2-3 seconds she would be on me so trying to be wary of that. I pull away not bad and then car in front has an issue so i have to back off and Fiona had to throw the anchor out her window to stop. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH9aZE3Uu3g#t=3m19s. Things i perhaps could/should have done differently:


    Man up and go for the gap to right of steve H - ignore Fiona and hope things work out
    Leave more space by moving slightly to right and then picking back up race


I have that (perhaps) overly cautious attitude to start with open wheel car which in SMRC doesnt really matter (placing wise) as realistically i will always beat MX5's but always fall behind everyone else.

Another question i guess to those that did race. As a slower car anything i did that pee'd you off? Smile Be honest now. Short of saying 'if you cant do under a minute consistently you shouldnt be in SMRC which is certainly attitude of one driver heh'
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:22 am PostPost subject:
AK
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My perspective.

Tough titties for Fiona - shes behind you and your aim is to keep it that way Very Happy
Leave no space, use grass if needed... progress fwd.

Might sound a bit blase, but thats the way I see the start. I cant ever really recall looking behind off the line. Side yes to check for room.

Pace - It changes from year to year. I'm pretty sure no one is of the opinion a 60s car shouldnt be in SMRC S&S. Take a couple of years ago for example.... 60s would have be a good pace to race 3 or 4 cars closely.

Overall its the passing cars problem to get by you. Stick to your line and let them figure a way by. Doing anything but this causes uncertainty... like some MX5s that pull out of the way but others stay on line - which leads to the overtaking car slaloming through between them Laughing
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:26 am PostPost subject:
andybell
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roger i guess i need to just put my game face on as it were and always stay on race line for the predictability. I only go off race line if on a bend where they wont pass until round or i see them coming from miles back
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Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:41 am PostPost subject:
chorlton
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3/4 the way through my 1st year is when I stopped using the mirrors more than the windscreen & realised nobody else wants to make contact with an other car either (well maybe findlay & clark Laughing )
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Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:04 pm PostPost subject:
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Andy, I am guilty of doing the same thing. Like Adam said some of the time I've probably caused more confusion trying to get out of the way of the faster cars. Embarassed
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Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:17 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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so gonna resurrect this thread as well its the time of year for it....

I still struggle putting my car in right places and malcolm/emicen described it well as i still drive as if its a motorway. I anticipate people *may* break and ultimately ends up losing heavily on first lap in particular.

How do you all change your mindset from road v's race. You just go into fuckitall mode or did you just race year after year and got better? How about sim would that help.

Or should i just accept i am old and its harder Smile I have got a bit faster (even taking into account tyre/track change) so fastest lap:
race 1 - 15th fastest out of 23
race 2 - 16th fastest out of 23
race 3 - 17th fastest out of 23

So that puts me competitive (ignoring race craft which i suck at) with bottom quartile.
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Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:50 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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just ignore them and assume they'll move :/ doesnt work all the time Neutral
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Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:14 pm PostPost subject:
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I know I always bang on about single seaters, but maybe try watching some of the footage from the FF races. The racing is really tight, but everyone really really *has* to avoid any contact, as the consequences are obviously far more serious than in a tin-top.

From my point of view a lap is something like this:

Duffus
Attacking - If you've got the pace up the straight to get the move done by the braking point, go outside - forces the defending car to either tuck in behind, or compromise the corner by taking the inside. If you need to do him on the brakes, take the inside line. Even if you have to back out at the last minute, you force the defending car to the inside, and then you can get the run into McIntires.
Defending - Hold the middle line, but be ready to close the door on the inside if necessary. If you've already lost the place up the straight, tuck in behind and try to retake at McIntires. Try to keep as far left as you can while still covering the inside.

McIntires
Attacking - If you can get even a small overlap exiting Leslies hold the inside, and force the other car to yield. If the inside is blocked, keep threatening until the last second, then switch to the outside to try and get and overlap going into Butchers.
Defending - As with Duffus, get far enough to the inside to block the late brake up the inside, but stay as far left as possible to get the best run. Watch out for the dummy to the left.

Clarkes
Attacking - Unless you get a really good run out of the chicane, overtaking up the inside is a bit hairy. Still threaten though, and force the other car to compromise the corner. If you get the overlap, and are feeling super aggressive, you can squeeze the other guy out, but personally, I prefer to force him to the inside, then overtake on the railway straight.
Defending - Fairly easy unless you've had a really bad run off the chicane, just block the pass on the inside and carry as much speed as possible. If you do get passed on the inside, back off a little before the corner so you can get the run through Clarkes (without having to brake for the heavily compromised overtaking car) and hopefully retake the place on the back straight.

Hairpin
Attacking - Inside line, obviously. If he's stupid enough to leave space, late on the brakes and take a late apex (to stop his turn in). If he hugs the inside, go outside and concentrate on getting the best run through the corner - more often than not, you'll set up a potential pass at Duffus (or before!)
Defending - You've got to keep the inside door firmly closed. Even more than you think, as folks will use the grass etc to find a way past. If they switch to the outside, take the later apex to block their turn-in, concentrate on getting the best drive out to continue your defense up the straight.
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Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:31 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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ta Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:31 am PostPost subject:
andybell
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just watching some interesting footage from within david's car and its clear i don't get close enough to cars in front so perhaps it isn't so much race craft as #drivegoddamcloseryouwoose - simple as.
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 10:46 am PostPost subject:
HummuH
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andybell wrote:
just watching some interesting footage from within david's car and its clear i don't get close enough to cars in front so perhaps it isn't so much race craft as #drivegoddamcloseryouwoose - simple as.


You do seem very tentative at race start and on first lap in general, you come on and off the brakes 2 or 3 times before you go into Duffus. Any distance you lose on first lap will be very hard to make up during the race and it's easy to find yourself a few car lengths down and constantly chasing.

The best racers I have seen at Knockhill have the ability to really push the car on the limits of grip on the first lap on cold tyres. It's a risky game and you have to have the confidence to really push it, but to get the confidence you have to try it. Much easier to do in FWD too as you can keep the throttle pinned when the back end slides, which it will.
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:24 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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i guess i need to switch to the principle of if i can see road between myself and car in front i am not close enough Smile
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Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:47 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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Very much so.... the nature of the minis means that any time off the throttle is going to hurt big time, and itís not easy to make up ground unless the cars in front are tripping over themselves.

Which vid of davids are you referring to?

Giving wee taps (bumper to bumper) seems to be the norm in minis too, so donít be too worried about giving someone a wee tap bumper to bumper (exiting corner etc)
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Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:03 am PostPost subject:
David Long
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I think he means this one https://youtu.be/xw4_cg-6izE

I certainly got the feeling that Andy was leaving a little room for the 'big crash' that never happened.
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Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:44 am PostPost subject:
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Iíve aways maintained that the race can be won in the first few corners, especially in single make racing. That advantage that can be gained is very hard to make back in similar cars.
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