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Caterham v's SEAT ownership

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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:09 pm PostPost subject:
chorlton
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andybell wrote:
ah so thats why charlie shaws car can compete, makes perfect sense again


oh no you didnt Laughing
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:13 pm PostPost subject:
Fee
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If people spent more time focusing on their own cars and their own racing rather than whether other peoples cars meet the regs the paddock would be a much happier place
and maybe I would stop getting my bloody wing measured at every bloomin event!
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:16 pm PostPost subject:
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gah ok AMD and perfect sense as in 'i will pretend i kinda know what i am doing but dont really so happy to listen to people that do'. i am going to *very* often with this do 1+1 and get 4.

Now i know background makes more sense as to what is going on thanks all.
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:19 pm PostPost subject:
HummuH
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It wouldn't be a proper race weekend without you getting your wing measured Fee, it's kinda traditional now!
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:22 pm PostPost subject:
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Hence why I popped Adam's one back on for Sunday....the scrutineers would have had nothing to do otherwise Laughing
...although saying that, his wing didn't get a second look!
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:23 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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wing racists clearly. different colour?
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:23 pm PostPost subject:
chorlton
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anything for attention some folk Laughing
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Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:26 pm PostPost subject:
AK
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.... cough

My wing is actually higher than yours... hence single element for now
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:27 am PostPost subject:
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just on the investigation route now looking at the towing capacity 'problem' and I tried to pick through http://www.trackscotland.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7775&highlight=towing and great link from chorlton. In terms of the weights we are talking about:
Weight of copa - 1200kg I believe and lets say possibly another few hundred kg for fuel/tyres
uncovered tilt bed trailer - 790kg
covered tilt bed trailer - 1070kg

So I was looking at the link https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/193236/A_guide_for_horsebox_and_trailer_owners.pdf and on page 18 it mentions how to interpret the tag on engine so for me it was

2175 is the maximum weight of the vehicle on its own plus any load.
3945 is the maximum weight of the vehicle and any trailer that is attached plus any load
1105 is the maximum for the 1st axle of the vehicle
1190 is the maximum weight for the rear axle.

So from that it appears (taking worst case scenario) 1200 (copa) + 1070 (trailer) + 200 (car stuff) + 1700 (audi unladen weight) = 4270 which is (4270-3945) 225Kg over legal limit
uncovered 1200 (copa) + 790 (trailer) + 200 (car stuff) + 1700 (audi unladen weight) = 3990 which is (3890 -3890) which is bang on

At the moment I am well under it as the Caterham is about 500 ish kg.

If so that makes the trailer decision far easier I guess.
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Last edited by andybell on Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:01 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:17 pm PostPost subject:
HummuH
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The the 'Copa's weigh more like 1200kg dry do they not?

I'm not gonna stick my neck out as it's a minefield but here's my understanding of how it works (p.s. this site is a bit more user friendly: http://www.ntta.co.uk/faq/):

Firstly, according to your figures above, your towing capacity is 1,770kg (3,945 - 2,175). So, your race car + trailer + any shit in it cannot be above 1,770kg. That's going to be hard with a covered trailer.

Secondly, your trailer needs to be suitably plated to take the weight it's carrying.

Having been stopped in Holland coming off the ferry whilst towing the Mustang (c 1,400kg) in the X5 with all the usual race stuff we were weighed and within 50kg of the limit, a full tank of fuel could have put us over. The X5 had a towing capacity of 3,500 kg with the BMW upgrade.
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 12:50 pm PostPost subject:
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cheers so by hard read impossible Smile

interestingly weight was on a random check and going to SLS site its 1345kg for Jasons (guess driver+fuel) and a MK3 according to seat is 1150 Kg for 'Total weight in race conditions without fuel'. So even with an uncovered trailer im over :~

so given when I look about paddock and people with BMW compacts and such like I am guessing quite a few aint legal )
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:16 pm PostPost subject:
HummuH
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andybell wrote:
cheers so by hard read impossible Smile

interestingly weight was on a random check and going to SLS site its 1345kg for Jasons (guess driver+fuel) and a MK3 according to seat is 1150 Kg for 'Total weight in race conditions without fuel'. So even with an uncovered trailer im over :~

so given when I look about paddock and people with BMW compacts and such like I am guessing quite a few aint legal )


I think you'll find there's a large number of folk driving illegally with trailers, probably unaware they are illegal, but if you get stopped and checked that's not an excuse.

Compacts wont weigh much (sub 1,000kg?) and on an open trailer I'd think most cars would have enough capacity. My car and trailer weigh in at 1,460kg combined so within limit for most saloons and estates.

The other thing to remember is licence entitlement. Unless you're old fogies like us 3,500 kg is the max limit for car & trailer combined unless you have the B + E (?) entitlement.
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:41 pm PostPost subject:
chorlton
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Passed test pre 97 max combined is 8.25t
Passed test after 97 max combined is 3.5t
Sometimes it's good to be old Very Happy

Not many cars & trailers will be under 1.5t
Not many large tow cars with fuel, driver, tools etc will be under 1.75t
As Mark says many are towing illegally not realising even after passing their towing test.

It's going to be one of these things that suddenly gets a clampdown I think & plod sitting at Dunfermline would be shooting fish in a barrel

Crying or Very sad
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 1:52 pm PostPost subject:
andybell
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Updated my post with 1200kg weight and with 200kg of stuff as I think I was overly optimistic. That 200kg covers tools/tyres/fuel/gazebo/stuff which I think is ok?

I was (excluding cost aspect) hoping to go covered route for storing stuff within the covered trailer all the time. With uncovered then at most can store fuel/tyres on it but with copa lots of additional stuff that needs to go in car e.g. air jack stuff. But it does mean presuming I got weights correct im perfectly on weight

never ending story :} and yay for over 40 \0/ (for once)
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Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:34 pm PostPost subject:
HummuH
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andybell wrote:
Updated my post with 1200kg weight and with 200kg of stuff as I think I was overly optimistic. That 200kg covers tools/tyres/fuel/gazebo/stuff which I think is ok?

I was (excluding cost aspect) hoping to go covered route for storing stuff within the covered trailer all the time. With uncovered then at most can store fuel/tyres on it but with copa lots of additional stuff that needs to go in car e.g. air jack stuff. But it does mean presuming I got weights correct im perfectly on weight

never ending story :} and yay for over 40 \0/ (for once)


You sure about that?

Using your figures a 'Copa is 1,200kg and your uncovered tilt-bed trailer is 790kg. Assuming nothing else goes on that's 1,990kg in total.

Your towing capacity is 1,770kg if I've calculated that right and the loaded trailer would be heavier than your car (A4 Avant?) which is not advisable for towing. 85% of towing car kerb weight / what's being towed is the "advisory towing ratio" iirc.

Unless I've got this horribly wrong, I have you being considerably overweight and illegal.
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